>> Dr. Wahby:
Speaker and we are fortunate to have her at Eastern Illinois University, I have listened to her presentations before, and have been impressed with her type and quality of presentations. 

She is the president of something, and she

>> Dr. Meadows:
Illinois Council on Family Relations. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
I tried to correct this name, but you have got an award for something, 

>> Dr. Meadows:
Mentor, faculty mentor award. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Excellent. 

And if you can't say Oyindamola say "owinda'  it means honey, and wealth, so if you forget Oyindomola, say and honey and wealth, so what you can ask for.  

And you pronounce your last name for them. 

>>  Oyindamola:
Odowu. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
E-doo. can you say that? E-doo? Very good. 

So we have two distinguished speakers, she is a student in the Masters program, and you want to read her [unclear dialogue] look at her reports, her mind, how she listens to a lecture, and goes and searches and she makes my days, [unclear dialogue] after class I went and researched this, and found this, and so forth.  Ideal student. 

And look for her name in the future, maybe she minister of something, so with out much adieu, please join me in welcoming Dr. Mikki Meadows.

>> Dr. Meadows:
Hi everyone. Thanks for coming.  

My area is early childhood, so my presentation starts, talks about family life, marriage, gender roles, things like that, but since we are going to talk about that later, I am going to kind of zoom through that, and focus a lot on children, and children's behavior and play. 

So that's the focus for tonight.  

So we'll start with marriage and family. 

And I am going to go ahead, like I said, and just zoom right through this, males tended to marry older in ancient Greece, so they were around 25-30, generally because they were finished with their service to the country at that time.  

Females were much younger, and so they were younger because they wanted to insure that they, you know, their virginity was still intact. 

The gender roles are what we might imagine them to be, or have heard them to be. The partners where chosen for the females because of their young age. 

The female's family did pay a dowry to the husband, and you know, which she was passed on to him, they might not even meet each other. 

They did move into the same home, and that constituted the wedding, the marriage, it was almost like, I don't know what I would kind of consider a compound, almost. 

Often the women didn't even leave the home, except for church, things like that. 

So, marriage was very different and the reason I am going through this is because children play what they see. 

So in order to understand children's play, we have to have a little tiny window into what adults were doing of course at that time.  

And like I said, gender roles, things like that.  

Divorce did occur, so again, I'll put, whoops, I got too excited there. 

Divorce did occur, but the children would often stay with the father, if divorce occurred, so that's kind of interesting, and something of course that I found very different.  

It wasn't that the father was interacting with the children, it was the father's ownership of the children and the family, so it wasn't like today and we had a divorce, if the father was with the children he would be the caregiver, interact with the children, that's what we would expect, and that's not why that happened in ancient times. 

Again, it was because of the ownership issue. 

The role of the women was to care for the family.  

And that was the basic role; so childbearing of course, was a priority. 

And childrearing was a priority.  

Again, wealthy women really didn't leave the home. 

They just focused on the home, the children, caring somewhat for the husband, caring for the slaved individuals that lived in the home, but that was pretty much the focus. 

She did have authority over the people in the home, authority over the children, and authority over the slaved individuals, but it was limited to you know that small area of you know her existence.  

You can stop me if I am going too fast. Because like I said, I am going to zoom through.  

So again, childbearing was extremely important for women, just like it often was you know, in ancient parts, in ancient times, in parts of the world. 

Generally four to five children, and so it's less than you might think, six to eight pregnancies, about half of the children would live at any time. 

Childbearing occurred in the home, it was assisted by other women, so you know, she wasn't alone. 

The father controlled most of the decisions related to childbearing. 

So for instance, once a child was born, the father would see the child, and depending upon the sex of the child, whether the child was healthy or not, of course if there was any question of illegitimacy, if the child had any issues, you know disabilities, anything like that, then what could happened was called exposing the child. 

And what that meant was they basically put the child outside in a pot or a basket or something, and hopefully somebody would come and claim it, but if not, of course the child would just perish. 

But basically what they were saying is we don't want any responsibilities for that child, and that was all the father's decision. 

And that was called exposing the child. 

Once the, after five to seven days after childbirth, there would be a purification ceremony, because again, in many male dominated societies, things like childbearing, menstruation, things like that, are seen as impure, you know, evil, almost a defilement of the home, and so the home would have to be purified, and everybody that worked with the mother during childbearing, would have to be purified as well.  

At that point then, once purification occurred, you could no longer expose a child.  So by then, the child was part of your family. 

Still wasn't named though until about age, about day ten, or ten days old. 

And that's they believed because of the fact that many children didn't live past the first week or so, and they wanted to make sure that the child was going to be a part of the family, before they bestowed a name on the child.  

So I thought that was kind of interesting.  

Females were not educated, go ahead and put those up again, they did stay with their mothers. 

The mother educated them, in again, of course, how to care for the home, how to care for other children, things like that. 

Enslaved children were not educated either, as you might imagine, and poor children were not educated. 

It was for the wealthy. 

Boys were educated from about 17 to 13 and it was we hear a lot about the ancient Greek education; so again, I am going to skip right through that, and generally about one teacher to ten to twenty boys. 

It's very interesting, when you read about ancient Greece, they have so many similarities, in their, in the way they look at childhood, and they way they look at children.  

Even in their educational systems, it was really similar to some of the developmental approaches that we use, saying that you teach children according to their developmental level, which makes sense, but we don't always do that intuitively. 

So things like that, they were actually doing in ancient Greece at the time, so that, it's small classroom one on one education, things like peer education, so older children teaching younger children, all of those kinds of things that are seen as very dynamic and creative right now, were actually occurring in the schools with the boys.  Ok, gender roles, this is the last one I am going to zip through.  

Gender roles, again, females were very much in a subordinate position, to the point that they actually didn't even have their own names. 

They had a form of their father's name, and when they were married, they were given a form of their husband's name, so they were very much seen as under the protection, the care, and of course, the authority of their father's and their spouses. 

But it's very interesting because males were in such a position, that actually they thought it took longer to have a boy child, so that they thought that gestation as the time from conception to childbirth, the nine months, basically, and many people believed that it actually took longer to grow a boy then it did to grow a girl.  

Because they were so much more complex.  

Isn't that interesting? 

But they thought it was harder to bear a female child because males were just easier, and easier to manage, and again superior, so these ideas even filtered into childbearing and mothering and gender roles and things like that.  

Ok. Here’s what I was waiting on. 

Ok. So toys and games in society. 

A culturation is the way that adults, well generally adults, it can happen at any point, but for my purpose, it's the idea of transmitting the rules of the culture from one generation to another generation. 

And so, Myer Forez in the 1930's and 40's wrote about the role of games and play in culturating children, and the fact that that is how adults draw children into society. 

It's through game playing with them. 

And that's how children then in turn learn about society. 

So we think that children are just kind of off playing, and enjoying themselves, and they are, and that's good, but basically what they are doing is they are interacting with their culture, with their environment, and they are learning about what people are doing on a day to day, you know, in their day to day worlds, by playing out. 

And so that is why you see children they very, very often are either playing with kitchen toys, right, you see them play with kitchen toys, or they are building things, you know, pretending to do the things that they see the adults doing.  

And so what adults do, then is through adult interaction, with children's play and games, we then either perpetuate you know the behaviors that we want to see, or we kind of smush down behaviors that you know don't fit in with our culture, mush in with our culture.  

So, a culturation was a huge part of play, in ancient Greece, for children. 

The play of children of ancient Greece is actually extremely similar to what we advocate in the school of family and consumer sciences.  

And that's again a developmental play. 

And that' s a play that means that children are playing according to their developmental level, and play is very pure, and for enjoyment and for social interaction, and so later I am going to talk about some of the trends in children's play in overall society, but those of that teach and study child development, advocate play as play, pure play.  

And so what that means is children in ancient Greece, and today, didn't play for adults, they played for themselves. 

And that, it sounds like that would be what children are doing, but think about what we do with children. 

So for instance, how many of you have ever had a child that just learned their colors, their ABC's you know something like that, and then you drag them everywhere, and say, "Now tell grandma how you know how to do your ABC"s, tell daddy your ABC's, tell," and they are like little performing puppies basically for us, right? 

We get them all dressed up, and we make them do tricks, and then we are like Yay! and we go Yay! you know, and then when they do something, anything now, then you know I work in the child development lab, and these little children will climb up on something and then they will go, like this, you know, waiting on somebody to clap for them, in play, you know, they are supposed to be playing, and they are supposed to be enjoying themselves for enjoyment's sake, now when you guys go out, and do something fun, do you do it for the approval of others around you, and for praise, and awards?  

And things like that, or do you just go out and have a good time, but see, we don't really, we often don't allow children to do that, like they did in ancient Greece, and like we advocate now.  

And so that was very interesting to me, because I was all over the fact that they are doing everything that I tell people they should let kids do, so that was very exciting. So play was very, what we would call pure in ancient Greece. 

So although they were learning the rules of the culture, they were doing it at their own pace. 

And on their own timeframe, and it was child initiated, as opposed to adult initiated. Does that make sense?  

All right, see, I told you I'd slow down, I really slowed down, didn't I?  

They were preparing for adult roles, so play prepares children for adult roles overall, just because of interactions, learning to use materials, you know, things like that.  

In ancient Greece, it was extremely purposeful, so for instance, both Plato, and Aristotle wrote about adults that were maybe craftsmen, tradesmen, and male oriented but what they said is they must have played that a lot as a child. 

So there was this very clear connection between people that little boys that maybe built with blocks and then built when they were grownups. 

You know, so they actually were not, they didn't push the play on children, but what they would do is they believed that children would naturally play what their aptitude was.

 So if they were going to be builders, then it would show up when they were young, and they would practice, you know, with blocks and sand and rocks and things like that, and be better builders when they were adults. 

So that was kind of interesting, I thought, too. 

The caregiving then is what the females did.  

So the females were given things like dolls. 

Little girls were given dolls and little toys that they would pretend to be running a household. 

Or pretend to be working in a household, or even they believed in slave children would pretend to be their little dolls were working for people, were little people that were running the household. So that was kind of interesting, I thought. 

So, the building, the caregiving, I skipped right over pretend play. But what pretend play does, is it allows children to try on adult social roles. 

So you've seen children do that, "I'll be the mommy and you be the daddy," You know, "I'll be the police officer, and you be the cat", I don't know, they do all kinds of things, but they are pretending to be grownups basically. 

They don't generally pretend to be other children, right, they pretend to do what they see us doing. 

And that was very common as well in Ancient Greece.  

So some of the toys and games then that they have found, they did find that toys and games were extremely important, very much a part of childhood. 

So, they are different ways that they figure that out.  And of course, one of the main ways is through burial sites.  

And what children, you know, what we bury, what they buried children with. 

That’s not grammatically correct, but you know what I mean.[00:16:03.08] 

So, children would have, the little girls would be buried with things like dolls, little boys would have balls, carts, you know, wheely toys, things like that. 

So that was one way you know, that we now look back and try to figure out what children were doing.  

But we never really know whether it was ceremonial or whether they were really items the children played with.  

So, that's one cue we have but we also have things like decorative vases, lamps things like that, and without fail when children were pictured in art, they were playing, in some way. 

So either playing with adults, or playing with one another. 

So that's very interesting, because we don't really see that now. 

So what we would call almost a formal portrait of children was them at play, as opposed to posing and things like that. 

So that gives us another clue that play was very important in the lives of children. 

The most comprehensive information though that was have about ancient Greece and the toys and the games that were there, is through the written word. 

And so some of the ancient writings literally have chapters, pages and pages describing the rules that children used in games, and things, so again, that is very important. 

You guys don't pick up a history book, and read about three chapters on the games they were playing during civil war times, right? You now, you are looking at other things, so for fact that that's even included in some of the historical writings and appears more than once, you know repeatedly, seems to be a theme, again it gives us the idea that it was a very important part of life for the families.  

It was very much seen as an indicator of childhood. 

So when boys reached puberty, there were different rituals depending upon the time period, depending upon the family, but they would actually give their toys away. 

It was like a ritual. 

So they would give all of their toys away and then move into being men at puberty. Girls would do the same thing. 

They would give their toys to different gods, whatever god, again, depending upon their wealth, their station in life, the time period, they would give their dolls, and dishes and things like that to the gods, the night before their wedding, then to symbolize moving into a womanly role in adulthood. 

So, games and toys were like a badge of childhood. 

You know, we play games now, as adults, or a lot of us do, you know, so we tend to be more playful as adults almost, than my research showed the ancient Greeks were. 

They had organized sports, obviously, things like that, but as far as just play, you know, things like that, we didn't see that as much past childhood.  

So again, when children are represented, they are almost always playing, so we have the toys themselves, that survived, that we can study, and then the depictions of them just playing, and playing and playing everywhere. 

And so, this is actually a quote from Aristotle, and what I really like, is, "young things cannot keep still." 

And so that's really important. 

Because at different time periods, we've been more respectful of children and their natural curiosity. 

And their natural energy, and so this tells us that it was very child-centered, and that children were expected to play and be messy and do all the things that we now, in contemporary life think children should do.
[00:19:43.14]
Do you guys have questions or anything?  

Comments?  

All right, so the types of toys that they found.  

The first toys seemed to be rattles.  

There were rattles of various sizes, though. 

This is a rattle that would have been filled with something to make it rattle. 

And then this up here is a rattle of course where they slide back and forth; the little pieces slide back and forth.  

Rattles were made of a lot of different materials. 

They could be wood, terra cotta; the more wealthier families would have metal, like bronze even rattles. 

And one thing that was interesting is there were all different sizes.  

So they would have tiny little rattles, but they also had rattles that were large, about this big around.  

And they thought that what they did was adults would, you know, hold them, and mess with them to entertain the very young children. 

So they thought, so according to most of the writings and things, the ideas that rattles were the first toys that they played with.  

There are also a lot of tops, and so some of these; I mean these are very familiar toys, you know, to us as well. 

And very sophisticated toys, too, don't you guys think?  

This is a top that you wind, you know, have you seen those and you pull it out and it spins. 

But they also had them that you would hit with a whip, and that would make it spin, and so these were more of the boy’s toys. 

Rattles were for both girls and boys. 

These are more boy toys. 

But girls would play with them, but for most part, when you saw the tops, you would see them for, you would see boys pictured playing with them.  

Wheeled toys were very popular. 

There's a picture of a wheeled toy in the last scene showed a wheeled toy. 

There are depictions of children riding those, older children even would have little tiny miniature chariots and things, but many of them were used for children to learn to walk. Just like we do now.  

And so they have old, I was going to say photographs, they were not photographs, they have old there's actually a vase that I saw that had a child that was a you know, tiny child, that in what I would call a walker, you know, it was a wooden structure, and the child is you know, walking around in it.  

So, again, very, very similar to what we did. 

And that tells us as well, that children were given more freedom. 

When you see children in things like walkers, that means that independence, learning to walk, you know, learning to move on your own, all of that is important, as opposed to a child that you would see that would be swaddled, you know, and held close, and not exploring as much. 

And then balls, of course, so, sometimes the children would make their own toys, and balls were very common for them to make. 

So they would use the bladders of an ox, or you know, animals, and they would smooth them, and round them and make them strong, they had leather balls, most of those we know about because of the writing. 

Of course, you know, they didn't make it through to now, you know, we don't have the artifacts to look at, but we have the written, and the pictorial emphasis on balls.  Balls there actually are five different words for different types of balls that were used throughout that time period.  

So, again, mostly boys, but girls would play with balls as well. 

There are very few girls in some of the depictions with ball, mostly boys, but some girls.  

And they were again, on up until they were something the children would do, up until they gave their toys away and you know, reached what they would call adulthood.  

Of course, dolls, and dolls were generally for females.  

I found the dolls to be extremely interesting because here are two examples. So this is considered to be a doll. 

They thought that it might have some kind of soft material making up the head and the arms, but you can see the little legs, you know hanging. 

But this is also a doll, and it, some of them were extremely details, you know, articulated, which means they would move, they had almost not really an animatronic, but ones that would need bread, it would have a little handle on it that would move back and forth and the doll was actually made to where it would knead bread, they would walk, dancing dolls were extremely popular at the time, so all kinds of different dolls doing household tasks.  

And that was considered to be very important.  

The dolls, you can see from this doll, the dolls were nude, which tells us that then they had cloth clothing. 

So if they had painted on clothing, then that would be very different.  

So what they speculate, and again, according to the writings, what they think is the little girls would actually make the clothes for the dolls, dress the dolls, and you know were very interactive with the dolls, and very creative with the way they dressed them, and what they had them do, which again is something that we like, and we advocate.  

And like I said, the night before the wedding, they were given away.  

Knucklebones, that's these pictures right there, the children playing knucklebones, and those are knucklebones. 

They were used for gambling, basically, playing, almost like dice, they did have some dice and domino kind of looking materials, but this was considered to be one of the most popular games of the time. 

And they would gamble with little nuts and berries and things when they were little, and there's actually quite a few writings about how the child has traded in his nuts for money.  

And now he is wagering for money. 

So, I guess, it's kind of like I was talking about before. 

Maybe the kids that played knucklebones then grew up to be gamblers, I don't know, but, there was a lot of gambling going on with children and adults at that time period.  

They had a lot of toy animals, and so this was kind of interesting to me too, because most of the animals that they have found, have been portrayed, have been just common animals that would be in their daily life, which again, we really like in early childhood. 

So, there were a few examples of dolphins and lions, and some of the more exotic animals, but for the most part they were oxen, dogs, you know, the animals that would be in the children's daily lives.  

Interestingly, there weren't any nonsensical characters, you know, any mythological characters. 

They haven't found any indication that children played with anything like that.  

It was either the balls, the games, or the dolls and animals were real world models of what they saw. 

So that's very interesting given our talking cars, and bananas, and you know everything that we do now, so it's very different than what we do.  

And then of course, they had games. 

So games that you know, strength and agility were considered to be very important, so games like tug of war, and you know leading into the sports type games.  Ok, so what do we do now? 

So, I am going to move into contemporary views of play. 

Any questions or anything about?  

All right, so we have now something called "edutainment" which to me is the worst word in the whole entire world. 

Well, not the world, there are worse words, but it's pretty bad, in my area.  

And that's the idea of using play, using entertainment to educate children. 

And so what we do is we try to slyly slide in lessons when we are teaching, you know, we are teaching children and then we say it is through play, and then basically what we are doing, we are doing lessons with them that are kind of fun, and we call that edutainment, and we think that that's play. 

So, this, it's not new, actually Walt Disney used the term, and he's the first person in writing to use the term back in the '40's with his national geographic videos and things like that, but even things like Aesop's Fables, you know, so when you read a story, it has a moral lesson for the children, so we've been doing it but in contemporary society, we've kind of gotten out of control with that.  

So, we tend to believe that children are not really learning anything unless they have some kind of product, or have memorized something, or have something to show for it. I see that over and over in the child development lab. 

People will come pick up a two-year-old child and say, oh you didn't do anything today? 

Because they don't have a painting, or a, I don't know, a spaghetti necklace, or something, whatever you know, to show their families. 

And I'll say, well we blew bubbles, we took a walk, we rode in the elevator, those are all really good things for two year olds to do, and they are really fun, and we don't have any you know documentation that they learned anything, but they do, you know, so we are very focused on some kind of product, some kind of educational background with this trickle-down. 

So you know back in the '80's when I was going, when I started to go to college, you know, I just got up one morning and came and took my ACT test. 

Now when it came time for my sons to do it, they had prep classes, they had 75 dollar books you had to buy on how to take it, you know, and that's ok, we're grown ups. 

But what that does, is it trickles down, until you see things like Baby Einstein for preschool children and infants, and so you have computer programs to teach my very favorite is teaching children how to get dressed, there's a computer program for that.  

And so, it has a person like a paper doll person stand like this, and it's got clothes all over the place, and the children on the computer are supposed to click and drag the clothes. 

So, like if they drag underwear to the head, it'll go back where you know, it only stops, if you put it in the right place.  

You know what I mean. 

So, is that a good way to teach children how to get dressed? 

So the same people that will dress a child and say leave you shoes on, you are driving me nuts, quit taking your shoes off and on, that's how children learn how to dress, so they'll not let them play with clothes, and sit them in front of the computer and say, oh they love their computer, they are just learning all kinds of things, you know.  

So, that's what we are seeing now, and so what I would like to see is moving back to the ancient Greece idea of just letting children play. 

And understanding that like Aristotle and Plato said, they are learning, they are learning about everyday life, they are learning about how to talk to one another. 

You know, everything that they need to know, they are learning through play at young ages, so appreciating that and giving credibility to just play is extremely important.  I do have one more slide I want to show you, we also have a lot of technology now.  

And our technology, well, we've always had technology, I guess, but our technology now is often computerized. 

And so, what happens is children are given things, and I have little videos, but I am running out of time, so let me hurry, so like this little kitchen, that's a kitchen, basically, right? 

I mean, that's what it is. 

And to the point that it even has things that will tell the children what to do. 

So when you turn on the water, it makes a water sound, there's a computer you know inside, it'll say things like you should put the dish in the oven, you know, things, and they'll take it and put the dish in the oven, so we don't like things like this in early childhood.  

What I would rather see is a great big box and it can be a kitchen, or it can be an airplane, or it could be a space shuttle, it could be anything. 

This is just a kitchen. 

And they might pretend sometimes, it is other things, but their imagination is already cut for them.  

You know, they are being told how to play, they are being prompted in things like you know, fry your chicken now, put your macaroni and cheese in the refrigerator, these kind of things, it's very crazy to me.  [00:31:54.05] 

This is a walker to teach children how to walk, and oh my gosh, it buzzes, it sings songs, it, the little, let me just show you a little while I talk because it is actually very interesting.

It amuses me because, [video plays] and so we've got all this going on, encourages language development, sensory development, anyway.  

Whoops, I don't want to close everything here. Let me turn that off now.  

There's the part I like, it says, "IT even has a butterfly". 

Oh, well, ok. So, anyway, these kind of play activities, they shape the child's play, the child doesn’t' shape their play. 

It hinders imagination, and they cost a fortune. 

You've all heard the stories, or seen it yourself. 


You buy a child an expensive toy, and then they play with the box and the wrapping paper, and put the ribbon on their head, and you know, all of that. 

So we don't really need to be doing that. 

So I am running out of time. 

I am going to stop, but brain development research does show that we don't have to do all of this. 

The ancient Greeks had it right. Just let children play. 

That acculturates them, it allows them to practice adult roles, we don’t have to push our values, and our ideas of play on children, so the more we can look back at the way they did it, and give credibility to play, let children play then I think the better that they'll be as adults.  

So, I am finished, any questions? 

[applause]

Thank you. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Would you like to have any questions now, or after [unclear dialogue]. Do you want to go now? 

>> Student:
I have a question> 

>> Dr. Meadows:
Yes, 

>> Calvin Jones:
I was just wondering if well basically a couple of things. 

One thing you noted about how the children have a reliance on technology, because basically they are being told how to think, what to think, and in what order to think it. 

That is going to transition in to adulthood, which is what we are being as adults, so now, how to think, what to think, and if you don't think this way, then you are wrong. 

So, it's like when the children click on a certain image to or clothing items to put on, no, it doesn't go there, there should be a period of time when they should learn this on their own. 

But just to quickly, that's one point, and another thing, is how you mentioned, I just thought it was interesting how the back in ancient Greece, when the lady was only when she was about to become married, then she gave away her toys, and then it signified that her childhood was over, I just thought that it was kind of funny, because in today's society, at least in America, we as men, retain those toys, that we even get more, 

>> Dr. Meadows:
Get more, right. Try to find them again. 

>> Calvin:
Try to find them again, that is true, so I just thought those were interesting points, and I enjoyed your presentation. 

>> Dr. Meadows:
Thank you.  Thank you.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Any other questions? I know you have, if you take notes, keep them, and you can go to the honey and the wealth. 
How about that?

[applause]

>> Oyindamola Idowu:
Good evening everyone, and I am glad you are here. 

My name is Oyindamola Idowu. Like Dr. Wahby said, don't try to pronounce it. I would like to start off with a disclaimer. 

I will be presenting tonight about things that happened between the 4th and the 8th century BC, 

I was not born at that time. And everything that i will say here tonight, I got from books here at the Booth Library. And a few books from the library in Canada, so this presentation is not a story my grandfather told me.  

So, the ideal Ancient Greek woman. Greek writers, mostly men, they were precise about their definition of an ideal woman. 

She was beautiful and she had a soft voice, she was intelligent, only in terms of raising children, and running the household. She had to be told and [unclear dialogue] because childbearing was one of the major reasons while women married in that time. 

She had to be passive, and modest. Women were not expected to look at anybody in the eyes, they had to be submissive and silent, and if possible, totally invisible. 

So, Greek [unclear dialogue] the first problem that a Greek child would have, was to be given the chance to leave, and like Dr. Meadows said, that was a decision that would be made by the father. 

For two reasons, one, they were a conceited and expensive addition to the household, they were required dowry, and they do carry on the family name. So that was a decision that the father had to make. 

The girl's education was limited to what was needed for textile production. How to behave in society, and just the basics of reading and writing. 

The girls will grow up in the [unclear dialogue] which is the woman quarters of the house. It's mostly private, and it will be on the upper part of the buildings. 

It is where the women raised the children, made fabrics, entertained all the female visitors, it was just their part, their little part of the house. 

And although the Greek woman was secluded, she was secluded to that part of the house. 

She was in charge of the entire household. 

She had to, she was the storekeeper, she was in charge of the slaves, in wealthy homes, and like one of those things that I found interesting, was a wife's efficiency was a factor that determined whether a household should prosper. 

So she was like a manager.  

And to me was just like a glorified domestic slave. 

She was like the head to the slaves and the children. 

This still pictures that although the primary roles of a wife was child-bearing and textile production this picture shows a woman spinning and the other women weaving a fabric I guess.  

And the ideal ancient Greek woman was expected to be silent. 

They said the perfect woman was one of whom nothing was heard of, either good or bad.  

She was just silent all the time; she lives the life in the background. 

[Unclear dialogue] although there was a clue that the women left the house at certain points in time, sometimes to fetch water outdoors that was something done by slaves in rich homes, the women left the house to visit the tombs of dead family members, they visited cemeteries, they attended public performances, but during all of those activities they had to be inconspicuous, to the best of their ability. 

That painting shows a woman that was about to leave the house, and they had to wrap a veil around and cover a large percentage of their face, and their neck was not expected to be exposed.  

Women that were found on the street, not like, not dressed like that were considered to be prostitutes or slaves.  

And wedding in ancient Greece, or marriage, was, it was more of an obligation of a man for the legal continuation of his family. 

So, a man of about 30 years of age would be married to a girl between 12 and 15, and the girl was not even contacted. 

It would be a contract between the father of the bride, and the groom.  

So, the girl was she might not even meet the groom before the day of the marriage, and there was a time when the bridegroom would have to bring rich gifts to get the girl's hand in marriage. But that changed in later times, then the bride will actually have to contribute a dowry. 

That was the time that the father's didn't want to keep their female children anymore.  

On the day of the wedding, the bride will be dressed, she will be washed, and dressed by all the older female relatives, and most times they wore white garments, which was assumed, which was believed to be the color for religious ceremonies, so I don't know, but I think that's where we got the white wedding dresses that we now use. 

And also they shared cakes at their weddings to symbolize the desire for [unclear dialogue] of the union. 

So, like I said, I don't know but we have wedding cakes now. 

I think it was a Greek thing.  

And at the night of the wedding, the father of the bride will make sacrifices to [unclear dialogue] who they believed was the god of fertility, and childbirth. 

They would also give the toys of the girl to this goddess. 

And not [unclear dialogue] the bride, the groom would have to conduct the bride and they said that the groom holding the bride on the wrist was a sign of I got you. 

So that was caused why they hold them by the wrist, and sometimes they would conduct her to a new home on a chariot if it were a rich man. 

And if not, they would just go on foot.  

So, the wedding or marriage, was a huge transition for a Greek girl, because at age 12, when I guess I was still learning to cross the street, she would abandon childhood, and ascend into adulthood, leave her mother's care, and transition into the care of a man whom she had never met. 

So it was a moment of crisis for Greek girls according to documentation and documents that I read, and also at that time, because a new bride was anxious to bear a child, that was the only thing on her mind, so she worried about that, and at that time, childbirth was the main, was about fifty percent, constituted about fifty percent of the mortality rate in women. 

Because there was, they didn't have advanced medical technology like we have now.  

So, scholars believed that the ancient Greek women had a life span of about forty years. 

Because they had numerous pregnancies, although they believed that contraceptives were available at that time, but it was only [unclear dialogue] so they have numerous pregnancies, and at about age 27, and maybe the woman is pregnant also, she is getting ready to give her first child’s hand in marriage.  

So, Greek women didn't live so long, like we do now, but they didn't have too many things to worry about, because the legal system was structured in such a way that all through a woman's life in ancient Greece, she had no right over her own existence. 

She was under the care of her father or her husband at any point in her life. 

Publicly, legally, the husbands would prevail at all times.  

Women had no rights to vote, like some of you did today, I guess.  

But, this is not to say that happy marriages were impossible in ancient Greece. 

Periodeces and [unclear dialogue] are the happiest couple recorded in Greek literature. And like Homer said, he said that Daileces paid attention to each other. 

Maybe it was an arranged marriage, but it looked like it worked out for them fine. 

So, I was thinking, all of this, women was secluded, they could not vote, they could not even think for themselves, and then I began to wonder why? 

So, why Ancient Greek women were secluded was because the Greeks believed that women lacked the ability to control their physical cravings, so it was the role of the man in their life [00:46:43.20]
to help her maintain her dignity, even if it required lock and key or she had to be incapacitated, so that is why they were secluded. 

And why women had to lower their gaze all the times, they believed that the woman's gaze carried a lot of power, and it could actually, it could render a warrior powerless.  

So, women were expected to lower their gaze, it was a plot to diffuse what the assumed to be the woman's weaponry.  

Also why the girls had to marry early? 

While the assumed that the uterus was the source of whatever hysteria a woman would have, so, they had to marry early to make sure that does not happen.  

Why women were excluded from matter of the state. 

Like Aristotle said, he said in a woman the daily [unclear dialogue] in the soil is present but ineffective. 

Like women had weak minds, He also said that women have memory in light degree, but that the female nature lacks intellectual strength. 

So that's why women were excluded from matters of the state. 

They believed that it was too sensitive a thing for creations with weak minds to handle.  

So that is why they were excluded. 

While today's woman exhibits more independence of thought, and today a beautiful woman is not just, it not just about the physical appearance anymore, it is now about what she carries on the inside, so the ideal woman today is still, should still be noticed, confident and is more intelligent beyond what is required for housekeeping and she also exhibits a high degree of self [unclear dialogue] whether she is kept under lock and key, or not. 

But Greeks believed that the woman's nature was dangerous to even herself, and it could cause a huge damage to the society. 

So all of the laws about the legal system, and all the laws about women, was to insure that they bore legitimate children to their husbands. 

That way, the family fortune was passed down to younger generations in confidence.  

One thing that I find interesting was the belief that the Greeks believed that the woman is a virtuous embodiment of the home and the family. 

This is a contradiction to me, when they said that she has no control, physical cravings, and then they use the word virtuous.  So, this contradiction the Greeks that try to contain it, by comparing women to horses. 

They said a woman's beauty nobility and likely wild nature would not be diminished by domestication, but can be enabled to flourish in [unclear dialogue]. 

So, I know this is a sharp transition, from women and marriage and death, but funeral rites were the only public thing that women were allowed to do. 

That is why I have this on my presentation. 

Greeks believed that once a person dies, the spirit leaves the body, and they placed a lot of importance on funeral rites, because they believed it was an insult to human dignity for a body to be left unattended. I think we still do. I do it too.  

Well, it was considered a woman's public duty and also it was like a display of family wealth when people died in Ancient Greece. 

Like these two pictures are pictures of tombs, and obviously this is a richer family. 

So, they would make expensive tombs, and put personal items in it sometimes jewelries, and gold, and precious stones, just to show how rich the family was, or how important the person who died was.  So, funerals were like a three stage thing. 

The prothesis was the stage where the body would be washed, and placed on an elevated surface like that, and the families would come around, and weep and pay their last respect. 

The ekphora was the funeral procession, and that's the women would carry the body[00:52:00.29]for burial, and if the body was cremated, they would take the ashes. 

And the forth stage was, I won't try to pronounce, it, but it was the part where they would come back, wipe their tears, dress up on festive, clothes, and merry.  They would celebrate the life of the deceased, and they also believed that the spirit of the dead was there with them. 

So, I found this in a book here in the library, and it caught my attention, because I am a christian. 

It said that according to christian teaching, death offers a way of salvation [unclear dialogue] for a christian the prospects of life after death, stands as a consolation, for the [unclear dialogue] of this life. 

It means that christians believe that death is a way to rest, to eternal rest, while the documentation shows that the greeks, the ancient greeks were afraid of death, like Achilles said, he would rather be a laborer here on earth, than be the king or the lord in the land of the dead.  

The Greeks also believed that there was a consequence for living a good or a bad life. 

They believed that when a person dies, he will go to either of two places. Either the Elysian Fields, which was like the paradise, for the good, or the Hades, which is the dark, scary place where the bad people will be tortured.  

They also believed that denying a person a proper burial means that they would never find rest. 

And their spirit would just wander around in the underworld, would not go to the Elysian Fields or to the Hades.  

So, do you have any questions?  [applause]

>> Dr. Wabhy:
Very interesting. 

We took it from child to the birth to, any questions?  

I tell my students that you can't tell me that for an hour you listened to all these ideas, and you have no questions.  

That would be a problem. 

I have a question for you please. 

>> Dr. Meadows:
For Me? 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Yes, and you prepare for questions, as well. 

We will have two minutes, so don't worry.  

Where would you draw the line between imposing on children, anything, and the upbringing of them, or helping them to the proper way that we think is proper?  

>> Dr Meadows:
Well, we, so we want to socialize children. 

That's the role of adults.  

But, it's very easy to follow their lead, you know, so, I think as long as we follow the children's lead, and again, if we are teaching them, we are teaching them. If we are instructing them, we are instructing them. 

But if they are playing, they are playing. 

You know, and so they learn through play, but as far as us imposing our views on them during play, we look down on that. 

Does that answer you question, I am not sure if I understand. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Yes, there was a case that was seen I think when I came here first time 20 or 25 years ago, I saw that mother and father were sued by whoever, that they made their son 7 years, 8 years, to be able to go and join a college, he was, they took his childhood, they said, from 3 of age, and five years of his childhood they made him Einstein, so they sued them. Some organization of child abuse or something, said you deprived, I remember the words, you deprived your child from his childhood. 

How would you respond to that?

>> Dr. Meadows:
I would agree with that. I think that we very much push children. 

And we push children, because we think it's best for them, and so we want our chldren to succeed, we want them to do well, and we feel like if we don't start early, they are going to be behind.  

And it's difficult in mainstream society, right now, so it's hard for adults to step back from that. 

But I think people would be amazed by how much children learn just through daily interactions, reading to them, spending time with them, actually the number one indicator of future success of children is reading to them, that's the number one indicator. 

And they think that that's because of the fact that when you are reading to a child you are often, either holding them, or sitting close to them, so you are spending time with them, and there's language involved. 

You are talking to them.  

So, children that are read to, and are allowed to play, tend to do better actually in school than children that are, you know, drilled on their ABC's, and things like that. So we are just mixed up on what causes children to learn more effectively.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Ok, I have two questions for Oyindamola, but I'll ask another question. Anybody, I don't want to, say you name.

>> Marschelle:
My name is Marschelle McCoy and my question was about the burial rituals. 

Do you know why or when cremation would be used, like was cremation used in certain circumstances, or for lesser privileged families, do you know?

>> Oyindamola:
I think it was more of a choice, I think it was more of a choice, because so far, all the documents I have read, said they were either buried the normal way or they would cremate them, depending on the choice of the family.  

>> Marschelle:
Of the father? 

>> Oyindamola:
Of the family.

>> Marschelle:
And then, along with that, why might somebody be denied burial? 

>> Oyindamola:
Hmm. Does someone have an answer? [laughter] 

I am not sure but I think it could happen. 

>> Dr. Meadows:
I would say things like unclaimed bodies, or people that didn't have families, or things like that. 

>> Oyindamola:
Yeah, or people who died like warriors die on the battlefield, you know. 

It happens sometimes, it happens when we are away from home, and they might never find the body, or like now, we are in the, we would go and get the body, and give it a proper burial, and say at least this is the remains that we have. 

>> 
Well, along with that, what did they do with the children?

>> Dr. Meadows:
That was, I was going to ask that question, too, did you find anything about the burials of children, as opposed to adults? 

>> Oyindamola:
The burial, the exposed children, or children who just died?

>> Dr. Meadows:
Either one. 

>> Oyindamola:
I found nothing concerning the burial of children, but I know that they found tombs with toys in them, which indicated that it was a child's tomb, which means children were given proper burials, too. 

They took time to bury them, and put their toys in it.  

>> 
I meant the exposed chldren. 

>> Dr. Meadows:
If children were exposed, you know basically, it's like when I put my garbage out there, I don't pay any attention to what happens to it again.  

You know, they were just, and they were picked up and discarded just like any other garbage would be, if they weren't claimed by somebody else, but see sometimes they were claimed by childless women, or by older women, that you know, their children were gone, if they lived long enough by enslaved families, people like that. 

So the hope was that they would be claimed by somebody else, but of course that didn't always happen. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Have you read anything about like orphanages, or some society like that?

>> Dr. Meadows:
No, I didn't see anything like that.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
So there was no discarded

>> Dr. Meadows:
No, I didn't. 

There was a lot of taking in, so you know, when we say the baby was exposed, then you know, it could die, obviously, especially depending upon what the weather was, and if it was hungry, how quickly it was rescued, but a lot of the idea was just this shifting around, like we didn't want it anymore, but a family of enslaved individuals might take it, you know, somebody else, but there weren't, I didn't find anything related to orphanages, or anything  like that. 

>> Dr. Wabhy:
Why women and the funerals, they wear black, was black the color for sadness, or 

>> Oyindamola:
No, that was the vase painting, so I guess most times, the vases were orange, and black is the perfect color to show on orange, so I don't know the color they wore. But if 

>> Dr. Wabhy:
It looked to me like the dresses were black.  

>> Oyindamola:
No, the painting was black. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
ok. Cremation was well-known, well practiced in ancient greece? 

>> Oyindamola:
Yes, either they were buried the normal way or they were cremated, so 

>> Dr. Wahby:
so, did they get this from southeast Asia, or from far east, or is it kind of?

>> Oyindamola:
I believe it is a practice that they started.

>> Dr. wahby:
because, what i read, I am not sure this kind of, I read that cremation came to America from South Asian, eastern religion, so forth, I am not sure when that, but this is, ok, to you.  

What's wrong about in telling Grandma you ABC's?  

>> Dr. Meadows:
What we advocate with children is that you don't do things with children that you wouldn't do with an adult.  You know, 

>> Dr. Wahby:
You would not. 

>> Dr. Meadows:
Right. So we respect children though

>> Dr. Wahby:
Who said this rule? Who said that? 

>> Dr. Meadows:
Me.  [laughter] 

No, it's part of developmentally appropriate practice, which comes out of mu area, in early childhood development.  

But I guess I don't know that I've ever read that, said that way, but my idea is like, you know, I don't come up to you and pat you on the head, and talk about how cute you are. 

You know, it's insulting, you are cute though, but it's insulting, you know what I mean? 

It's insulting to make people perform for our entertainment, without a choice, and children, what they start doing, that's how they get their self-worth then. 

And so, that's why I'll get students that'll come and say, I worked really hard on that though, and I don't know why you gave me a D, because I worked really hard.  

And so, this idea that you are performing and everybody claps, and you just, you know, that kind of thing, it's not internally motivated. 

Now, if children just spontaniously, "Look at what I can do," then it's extremely appropriate to say, oh look at what you can do, you can say your ABC's, but to put them on the spot to perform for us all the time, is just disrespectful. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Did you have the same students who told me the same thing?  [laughter] 

I am sorry you can work hard and wrong. 

 Another one told me I paid for that class and I have to get an A, because I am paying.  

Now, children without anything, see you draw the peach, say mommy, mommy, look at me, look at what I am doing? 

And let's face it, adults are being starred in the movies in Hollywood, or are being in the congress, or being wherever, they do this for the same old thing, mommy, see me. 

> Dr. Meadows:
Right, it's external,

>> Dr. Wahby:
So, why do you think it is something to say how cute you are. 

Because everybody wants to be praised, not in a bad sense, but to be appreciated you have knowledge. 

>> Dr. Meadows:
Right, and that's true, but so for instance, I want to be appreciated for what I've accomplished, and so, if I leave here tonight, and somebody says to me, you know, I didn't really like that presentation, I don't get my self-worth from that. 

You know, I don't get my self-worth from other people's praise.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Yes, I agree,

>> Dr. Meadows:
And that's what we do to children when we praise them.

>> Dr. Wahby:
I think this is right, and another sight for it, we would love to see that we were successful, we strived to what we wanted, because if somebody tells me my presentation was not good, so I really failed to convey, when he or she honestly would tell me that was to the point, you drove it home, I am really, I feel that I accomplished, I acheived somehting, so 

>> Dr. Meadows:

Right, but young children can't filter that information the way adults do, and it just basically trains them to perform for us, instead of choosing thier own activities, that please them, they are choosing things to entertain us.  

Do you see what I mean?